oxalates, stinging nettles, lemon

Loohan · 2023-01-04 17:50:47

I don't know if i've posted it, but i have been telling people for some time that stinging nettles clear oxalates. But how true is this? They seemed to help me get rid of my eczema, but was that due to clearing oxalates? Do they actually help get out decades-old deep deposits?
I was thinking about this after watching

Oxalate Poisoning & Dumping: What It Looks Like, the Microbiome Myth & Why Zero Carb May Not Work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdNMleBApPY
She makes no mention of nettles in the vid or her website.

I thought i'd take another look at the literature. I don't know where i read that before. I thought it was maybe 3 different sources. But i had trouble finding anything about this today.
-- There are references saying that the mature plant is high in oxalates but the young ones very little. Of course, many references just say they are high or low, but that is just sloppiness. Personally i only harvest them early in the season.
-- There are many references saying they will inhibit kidney stones from forming and some say they will dissolve them somewhat. (But will eating/drinking nettles along with oxalate-bearing foods also prevent absorption into other tissues?)

But today i could find no reference claiming that they will dredge them out of your system EXCEPT from ONE lady. She is paraphrased in many places but i only found one direct quote:

https://thethingswellmake.com/foraged-t … -smoothie/
The calcium in many leafy greens (particularly spinach, chard and beet greens) is not as bioavailable to the body, due to the natural presence of high levels of oxalic acids before cooking, but Nettles do not contain much of these oxalates. Nettles actually remove oxalates from tissues throughout the body.
Dr. Mary Bove, N.D., Gaia Herbs Medical Educator and Scientific Advisory Board Member

"Nettles actually remove oxalates from tissues throughout the body." says ONE PERSON. How correct is she, i have to wonder.
Anyway, i like them frequently in moderation, in tea or cooked with other veggies. But i think i will be buying some lemons to make lemon water in the future. This has a greater consensus regarding efficacy. Also recommended is to take minerals in CITRATE form. It is citric acid that clears oxalates -- but i also read somewhere that consuming quantities of the industrial white powder is not good.
I have been taking magnesium citrate and potassium citrate for some time. Calcium citrate is also highly recommended but i consume too much raw milk to supplement with extra calcium.

Incidentally i learned from the vid that it is not only the soluble forms that are dangerous, but the insoluble ones are in tiny crystals and spikes to pierce the innards of insects, etc. and this is not good for one's digestive tract, etc.
I recommend the vid.

Loohan · 2023-01-10 13:29:47

Got lemons and have been drinking lemon water. Especially some first thing in the morning. But i am leery of the quantities usually recommended. I don't think I need that. 1 cup of tepid water with 1 tsp of fresh juice is about right for me. I go through less than 1/2 a lemon per day on average. Still, seem to be getting a feeling of well-being lately, for whatever reason.

There are lots of articles online about people dissolving their tooth enamel with lemon water. And some people are mixing it with baking soda, but again, strong er concentrations of lemon and soda than i would like. And warnings against doing this too much.

I just tried adding a bit of soda to a cup of lemon water. I kept adding small amounts, expecting it to stop fizzing, but stopped before i got it to stop. Let it sit a while. I put in maybe 1/2 tsp but don't know exactly. After letting it sit a few minutes i measured the pH as 6.75 with a paper strip. Drank it, quite pleasant. Like a seltzer or something.
Then i measured my drinking water. Twice, because i can't believe the results. It barely makes the test spots change color at all. If just one spot had gotten some orange into it it would have been 4.75, but my strips don't read below that. Meaning my drinking water must be pretty acidic. It is filtered rainwater, and rainwater normally should be at least at 5.
But, baking soda does not fizz at all in this water. Some sinks to the bottom and has to be stirred to dissolve.
I'm not enough of a chemist to figure this out.

https://sallyknorton.com/which-spices-a … n-oxalate/

I would suggest drinking the juice of a whole lemon 3 times a day to support your kidneys and help your body resist oxalate accumulation. It might be a good idea to add 1/8 tsp each of baking soda and potassium bicarbonate to it and let it fizz before you drink it. If you don’t tolerate lemons, try citrate supplements (calcium, magnesium, and potassium) at low doses, and increase gradually...
I think the sipping of acid water (lemon water) could be an issue and is less effective for metabolic support than drinking lemon juice straight as a “shot”. Here are a few tips for caring for your teeth after taking lemon juice:
Drink mineral water before and after a lemon shot. Use your saliva (which is alkaline) to “rinse” or pull the lemon juice out of the gaps and pockets between the teeth. Do not brush your teeth in the 30 minutes following a lemon. Remember, citric acid builds strong teeth and bones. Weak dental enamel comes from primarily from nutrient deficiency (causes weakness in the enamel), not acid.
Personally, in the 5 years I juiced at least 3 lemons every day, my dental health was excellent.

FWIW.

Diego De La Vegan · 2023-01-11 05:06:18

if you drink avoiding your teeth, i don't think it would do any harm.
At least it is what i do, i don't "gargle" with it.

Another thing i do, is to have a frozen lemon and put also some lemon zest on the drink.

From time to time i also swallow a garlic clove like a pill, on an emprty stomach. It resolves me bacterial issues in the bowels.

Loohan · 2023-01-11 06:55:22

Zest is grated peel. In the US at least fungicides are common on citrus because otherwise they may get covered with black mold. So only if they are organic should one make zest.
I wash my lemons before cutting them in 1/2.

Diego De La Vegan · 2023-01-11 07:42:23

yes. i only use lemons from my own lemon trees.
I cut my citrus fruits into longitudinal sections.
that way, the pulp is not exposed to the air.
the skin of each lemon section prevents the pulp from deteriorating easily and keeps the fruit eatable for a longer period.

Loohan · 2023-01-13 09:30:24

Don't try to clear them too fast!

Low Oxalate Diet: How to do it the RIGHT way!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL-pW_c90Wo

Too-fast dumping can be dangerous.

As for myself, after watching Sally Norton's vid, i quit all cacao cold turkey, and almost eliminated cinnamon. I had already cut way back on almonds. I had been eating phenomenal quantities of unsweetened cacao for 12 years or so, and prior to that, quite a bit of 85% chocolate for years.
And now i have upped my intake of lemon water. I like it with a bit of Mg, K, and baking soda added.

Not experiencing much in the way of possible dumping yet, but remember, i have been doing nettles a long time, which MIGHT have had an impact.

One symptom which i suspect may be due to oxalates is generalized stubborn muscle aches, above and beyond what seems normal from exercise. In recent years i don't suffer as much from this as i did back when i was living on grains, potatoes, peanut butter, etc.
I noticed years ago that taking an Epsom salt bath really helped with this. Some claim the soothing effect is due to the infusion of Mg; others say it is really the sulfur. Others recommend it for clearing oxalates! as well as saunas.
I don't have a tub but i do have a sauna. I was feeling that acheyness all over that wouldn't go away yesterday, so i did a long sauna and feel loads better.

I'm not giving up my turmeric though! I need it to keep my iron levels low. Too much turmeric can cause iron anemia in young people, but older people have trouble getting rid of iron which can build up to toxic levels.
It's not about eliminating all oxalates 100%. Much gets excreted. Some gets digested by gut bacteria. Some is produced by your own body.

Oddly, neither this guy nor Sally Norton breathe a word about the fact that GELATIN in supplemental form or Jello or in meat, causes the body to produce a lot of oxalate. As has long been known:
Bone Broth, Gelatine, Oxalate, and Kidney Stones
Posted on November 26, 2015
This reference is about excretion levels and kidney stones -- like most older references about oxalates. The medical profession has focused on the kidney stone aspect. But one's life can be ruined by oxalates even without any kidney stones.
I do use gelatin powder and when available, bone broth myself. And in the winter i eat small portions of meat most days.

Regarding almonds and other nuts: Some time back i read that roasting them for 15 minutes gets rid of much of the oxalate and other anti-nutrients. References vary in just how meaningful a percentage. Also, eating them with yogurt neutralizes them to some extent. For months i have been roasting my almonds and then letting them sit in yogurt for some time before eating.
There is something about almonds that my body craves.

Loohan · 2023-01-13 10:12:55

Oh yeah, also ascorbic acid (vitamin C) breaks down into oxalates. So avoid taking lots of C. Even dietary amounts of naturally-occurring C raises oxalates.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4946963/
The association between AA intake and kidney stone formation was first reported by Taylor et al in a prospective study of ~ 50,000 male health professionals6. Men with an intake >218 mg/day had a 31% higher risk of forming stones than those consuming < 105 mg/day (P = 0.01). Supplemental AA also increased risk with an intake > 1000 mg/day associated with a 16% increase over those taking no supplemental AA. In a similarly sized study in Sweden, supplemental AA intake was associated with a near 2-fold increase in stone risk7. This risk appeared to be associated with the number of supplemental tablets taken each day, but the dose relationship was not accurately quantified. These findings suggest that AA intake could be a significant risk factor for the development of kidney stones and indicate that studies to determine the effects of both dietary and supplemental AA on stone risk factors, particularly urinary oxalate excretion, in normal subjects and stone formers consuming controlled diets are clearly warranted.

Loohan · 2023-03-16 10:16:22

Oxalate Dumping: How to deal with it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB5YwYjK-q4

If you have a lot of stored oxalates, you WILL eventually experience detox symptoms after you cut back. This vid discusses supplements that should help deal with this. I have already been doing most of these to some extent but am ordering a few more.

My symptoms have mostly been gut, and itchy skin. My scalp, feet, face, neck, arms, butt, you name it will often start itching even though i notice no more eczema or suchlike. Since i don't have a bathtub i sometimes fire up my sauna, which helps a lot.
I went through a period of constipation that later turned to loose stool, that was tied in to muscle pains in various parts of my body. And lots of farting and burping. Then that went away and suddenly my digestion was great and i could eat things which had been giving me gas in recent years with impunity! Alas that did not last long before another wave of oxalates hit my gut: i have had loose stool and lots of gas for days now despite eating less, mostly collagen in raw milk. A few days ago my entire gut lining felt raw and inflamed to the point where i had to brew up some strong marshmallow root tea. Often i feel a painful pocket of gas in my lower colon.
No eye symptoms except this morning my eyes would not focus for a long time.
THIRST! I normally don't drink huge amounts of liquids but in recent weeks, i am much thirstier, and pee a lot. Lemon water with a touch of baking soda especially has the effect of inducing delayed thirst in me.

On the positive side, i am often sleeping better and most of my crampiness has gone away, knock on wood. In recent months i had started to get muscle cramps including being awoken by charlie horses sometimes.

Rememember, uncontrolled oxalate dumping is dangerous and can cause serious damage. People have been sent to the hospital.
I notice that once it starts, it has a certain momentum to it.

Sally Norton says that part of the reason that oxalates are so sneaky is because your immune system insulates the crystals from the rest of your biology by pasting pieces of dead cells, etc all over them. Once you begin clearing, i guess your immune system starts stripping off the insulation, and dangerously high levels can be liberated.

Loohan · 2023-03-26 08:08:05

Well, the next day i already felt MUCH better! Virtually no gas, only lite itching.
Then the following day i felt amazing, the best i could remember ever feeling. Of course i have suffered from oxalate issues not to mention gluten issues, for most of my life. Especially since i got into a macrobiotic vegan diet in 1975.
Then i felt pretty good the next day, too. But then the following day, more gas. So, ups and downs, but already i feel like dramatic improvement has occurred. Testosterone feels significantly increased! And i am 69.
Of course it will likely take years to fully clear the stored oxalates.
Today, some gas, widespread mild muscle aches and skin itching.
Yesterday my bowels starting forming some soft turds for the first time in a while. It seems that loose stool is one of the ways my body prefers to rid oxalates. But then also, i have been drinking a lot of liquids and taking a lot of supplemental Mg which could loosen stool.
No more eye blurring since that one time.
Another interesting interview of Sally Norton:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pjYw5gn2ZQ
I am phasing out almonds. Even before watching this vid. Still have not had cacao.

Loohan · 2023-04-13 08:07:16

I've watched 3 more interviews of Sally Norton. This one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQB1KPY … kerPodcast
has a lot of detailed information, though in layman's terms.

I have not had any more almonds since last post. So so far i have quit cacao, cinnamon, and almonds, some of the biggest offenders. And i might have quit turmeric; haven't wanted any in a few days. She says one can take curcumin extract, as the oxalates get lost in the refining process.
I haven't taken cumin in a while either.

Itching is less than it was, but possibly just because i am adroitly managing the rate of dumping. I did eat some of my frozen kale (along with some frozen nettles), blanched and well-cooked, a few times to lend a bit of body to my stools. Kale is a useful medicine for tightening up the stool. Nevertheless, i still have chronic loose yellowish stool. But much less gas lately.
I also had to brew marshmallow tea again to sooth my digestive tract. Also i have been adding calcium citrate lately which helps a lot -- apparently the calcium in milk was not sufficient.
I still crave a lot of liquids. Often i drink nettle tea, sometimes with white tea added (oxalate lite).

Of course she says that everyone has a different symptom pattern when dumping.

Loohan · 2023-04-23 08:10:52

Another tip: if you're getting persistent queasiness and gastric upset from the clearing, take ACTIVATED CHARCOAL on an empty stomach, and don't eat anything for a few hours.

I kicked off some heavier clearing yesterday, presumably because instead of my usual 14-15 hour fast i went 18.5 hours before breakfast. Anything that favors autophagy will accelerate clearing symptoms!
Itching is much less lately but loose stool continues.
Anyway when i got up this morning, feeling miserable, i washed down 2 caps of charcoal with water, and soon started feeling better. Then a couple hours later, i juiced a lemon, added a bit of baking soda, some water, drank that, and after a couple more hours was feeling rather great again.

I believe the charcoal works because one is not merely getting rid of oxalate. I doubt it has any effect on oxalate crystals, but the crystals are coated with old pieces of dead cells etc to sequester them, and who knows what toxins are bound up in that mess. Of course it should also soak up any loose unbound oxalic acid.
The charcoal absorbs and neutralizes all kinds of stuff. Including nutrients, so i use it well away from eating.
Presumably due to the funky dead matter and other decadent cells, my urine has been super stinky lately, and for weeks i had a horrid ass-crack stench that stunk up the shower stall just from me washing my sphincter.
Enough information for your tastes?

Loohan · 2023-05-26 06:23:45

Scientist reveals why your mouth REALLY tingles after you eat pineapple... leaving some fruit fans vowing NEVER to eat it again
The unnamed scientist runs popular US-based TikTok account SF Microscopy
He said there are 'needles' in pineapples that stab through cell membranes
The revelations left viewers stunned as many vowed to never eat the fruit again
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/arti … apple.html

The voiceover explains: 'Why do our mouths tingle after eating pineapple? It's because we are getting stabbed by thousands of tiny needles called raphides.
'These crystals of calcium oxalate poke holes in your cell membranes causing irritation.' ...
'Kiwis, grapes, taro, and yams also have large amounts of these crystals.'

Actually, according to Sally Norton and other sources, grapes are low-oxalate.

[Edit: although pineapple does have oxalate crystals, and i don't eat it anymore, they exaggerate. If i put some bromelain concentrate in my mouth i get a lot of that tingling! And the bromelain should have the oxalate removed.]

Loohan · 2023-12-15 09:04:27

Many months later, i keep gradually feeling better but still, if i feel real good, i know that means that soon that vitality will result in another, deeper, cleansing, with a return of flatulence and loose, burning stool, etc.

I like yerba mate', and just tried to look up what claims are made about its oxalate content. No info avalable, except
"It also breaks down calcium-oxalate stones (better known as kidney stones) ..."
How true this is i don't know. Only found this one reference. Of course, "breaking down" suggests that the oxalic acid separates from the bound minerals, meaning that it is running around loose looking for more minerals until it gets excreted. However, this is a good thing as the sharp crystals can no longer do mechanical damage.
Of course if it breaks them down in the kidneys, it is likely to break them down elsewhere in the body.

Many people on a low-oxalate diet are into a carnivore diet. But i only like small portions of meat or salmon, and not every day. I eat a lot of quality farm eggs and dairy, but also, depending on the gardening season, quite a bit of low-oxalate plants.

Loohan · 2024-04-18 11:11:26

A few words about supplements: the supplements help your body get rid of oxalates. If you don't take the supplements, and also cut way down on oxalate consumption, you might not actually clear the stored ones for some time. But at least you won't be heaping more on.
Sally mentions in one interview that there are people who go on a carnivore diet with no supplements, and it can take years before they get the symptoms.

Since i eat a lot of local raw dairy plus some organic cheese, i almost never take calcium supplements. So the main supplement i take is magnesium citrate. Warning: avoid the type sold by purebulk,com. What they sent me was insoluble grit that apparently gave me a Mg deficiency, as my muscle cramps started to come back. Then they disappeared when i resumed the brand i usually take
https://www.swansonvitamins.com/p/swans … 244-g-pwdr
which is usually cheaper than purebulk too, given the constant "sales".
I have not tried the one from bulksupplements.com.

Mg citrate is somewhat laxative though.

Also, recently i started getting a bit of acid reflux almost every day, which normally i only get very seldom, like a couple times a year. Doing a bit of research i learned that potassium citrate (and potassium chloride) can casue that if you take too much. So i quit for a few days and no more reflux. I had been taking a bit more than usual because i don't eat a lot of veggies and fruit in the winter. Of course that has changed recently as i am getting lettuce and basil out of the garden.

Loohan · 2024-04-18 11:26:11

Lately though i have been getting some cramping back again, though no full-on charley horses. I believe this is due to deeper levels of oxalates coming out.

My skin phenomena is virtually long gone. Except if i drink caffeine before breakfast and exercise enough, the autophagy will make the tops of my feet itch a bit. I went through a stage for months where the skin on my feet would often be pretty dark red or purplish after walking around, especially if i wore closed shoes or boots. But even with sandals it commonly happened.

My Reynaud's disease is virtually gone. It started maybe 7-8 years a go and was getting worse a couple years ago. Now on rare occasions i just get slight numbness in one finger if i get cold enough.

Weird nail phenomena: my fingernail growth sped up a lot when i quit gluten many years ago, and really took off after i quit potatoes. I was trimming a few nails several times a week for years; almost every day i would notice a couple sticking out suddenly. A few months ago my nails started getting super striated with vertical ridges; not a good sign. Once they were deeply striated for the full length, they almost stopped growing! They were really slow for a couple months, then started picking up speed again. Hopefully they will eventually come out more smooth again.

I still get a little bit of burning poop on occasion, but pretty uncommon now.

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#1 2023-01-04 17:50:47

oxalates, stinging nettles, lemon

#2 2023-01-10 13:29:47

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