Loohan Forums

Loohan

Administrator

Registered: 2014-10-31

Posts: 32,834

joint problems from working out wrong

I have been learning some stuff in recent months from YT physical therapy etc videos. These are mostly by Egyptoids, but still...

KNEES: I  have had problems with my right knee off and on for decades, but it was mostly off until a couple years ago. Much better now; i can sit seiza comfortably again.
I think it was most likely due to 3 things:
1) Doing leg extensions on a cable machine. I have a cable machine at home, and i have gone to gyms in the past when in VA.
Apparently this exercise only works 1 big muscle, the quadriceps. But most people don't need to develop this muscle more. If it is too strong it will pull the kneecap up.
I still occasionally do a few slow reps at low weight to squeeze the soreness out, as i am not trying to pack on muscle mass at my age, but maintain health.
Physical therapists disagree about the leg curl, long a favorite of mine. It supposedly puts a strong unnatural stress on the knees. I can see that if you are huffing and puffing with heavy weights to get ripped, but i just do it sometimes in a very slow and controlled manner with lighter weights.
2) Knee problems and other problems can result from WEAK GLUTEUS MEDIUS muscles. Many people, even serious bodybuilders, have this issue. Squats and horse stances do nothing to work these muscles. Exercises in which your weight is on one foot do work them, as they are the muscles that keep your pelvis horizontal when you walk, kick, etc.
Look up vids on how to do leg lifts or other exercises that isolate this muscle.
3) Squats with feet parallel: I don't do squats as much as Chinese-style horse stance. I stopped doing the narrower tai chi version years ago, as i feel i really need a wider and deeper stance as in Shaolin or Wushu.
And for many people this is fine! It depends on your individual bone structure. The hip joint consists of a ball on the end of a rod, and a socket. Image:
https://teachmeanatomy.info/lower-limb/ … hip-joint/
But in some people, the rod is short. Plus the socket may be more forward or backward in different people. Different anatomy can cause stress which transfers to you knees somehow. So some people can't do a "proper" deep horse stance without harming their knees. I am not sure what my skeletal structure is, but i suspect this was the major factor messing up my knee in the last couple years.
Now i splay my feet out when i squat or do horse stance. In fact in karate, chang chuan, etc the horse stances are even more splayed out than what i usually do.

More to come!

Loohan

Administrator

Registered: 2014-10-31

Posts: 32,834

Re: joint problems from working out wrong

From my blog of Aug 19. '16:

I haven't even been into my gardens in a week. I didn't go Sat and Sun because it was raining. And after that i was crippled up. I'll go out later and probably find loads of huge squash that need to be thrown in the compost.

What happened is that my left psoas totally freaked out. Any large movement of my limbs or body caused intense pain, as everything is supported by the core muscles. Even just getting in or out of bed is a long drawn-out traumatic procedure, let alone walking across the room.
It actually was real bad Friday a week ago, and i rested a lot that day. Then i was better Sat and went to work. Strained it by lifting some heavy stuff around. Felt worse Sun but not real bad; worked. Expected to be much better Mon after a good sleep, but as soon as i tried to move, realised i was in big trouble. Then Tues was much worse even, and Wed was the worst. Lightened up a tiny bit Thu, and then this morning i felt vastly better and more mobile.

I had my lower back go out real bad several times in the 90s, but this was even worse. I had crutches but they were useless because they have to be lifted slightly off the floor with an arm that is connected to the core muscles.

None of my allies, even Durkistan, could find any black magic behind it...

Day before yesterday was the worst. I had over-irritated it by getting up to pee or something, and my psoas kept spazzing out, clenching like a charly-horse but only half as hard. I did some shrieking. It was impossible to relax my core muscles during various periods of time.

Until a few months ago i had no idea what caused this. Also a reader told me the same sort of thing had happened to him once.

Here is the problem: many people have ABS THAT ARE TOO WEAK, even if they think they are doing ab exercises.
Your spine is held in place by muscles when you move about. The ABS should be doing most of this work. If they are not strong enough the responsibility falls onto the hip flexors to do the job. Image:
https://www.cmsfitnesscourses.co.uk/blo … r-complex/
So they will be constantly stressed out, hurt, and be tight. Massage and stretching may provide some brief palliative relief, but unless you strengthen the abs are not really going to help much.
This can mess with your lower back, too. I always have at least a bit of low back ache.

Many of the exercises people do to strengthen abs actually largely involve the hip flexors, and stress them out more while not being as effective as proper exercises. Crunches isolate the abs pretty well, but full situps engage the flexors.
There are many vids of proper ab exercises. But be sure the person knows what they are talking about.

EXERCISE WHEELS: I bought one a couple years ago, but last year learned i was doing it all wrong! There are vids on how to use one correctly by putting your flexors out of the action. Done correctly, this is my favorite ab exercise.

Loohan

Administrator

Registered: 2014-10-31

Posts: 32,834

Re: joint problems from working out wrong

SHOULDER joints:
I am 66 {66!} and never had any problems with my shoulder joints until last summer. I wrenched my right shoulder doing something squirrely and injured the rotator cuff. I am still nursing that along a bit.
When that happens it messes with your sleep because unless you can sleep on your back, no matter which side you sleep on will hurt your shoulder. Maybe not as much immediately, but you wake up in the middle of the night in pain and unable to find a comfortable position even on your back. There are vids on how to use extra pillows to support yourself, but this did not help me much.
Then a couple months later i messed up my left shoulder, too! Still nursing that one, too.
I asked myself, WHY suddenly these shoulder issues? What am i doing wrong?
Well, today i watched a video by a slimy Egyptoid who i suspect has the right answer:
3 Reasons Why I Almost Always Do Narrow Push-ups and Pull-ups
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cOYNWogKuM

For the last several years i have been working on my lats. I was admiring my splendid physique in the mirror some years ago, and realized i had almost no lats! I thought that was not a good thing and have been working them more since.
Having stronger lats really helped my posture and neck issues! Even if my neck was somewhat out and could use chiropractic adjustment, it usually did not bother me much. The lats seemed to stabilize my neck, i walked upright. Even my mom commented on the difference.

But i thought it was best to grab the lat-pulldown bar or chinning bar in a rather wide grip, as that seemed to involve the lats more. In fact this was confirmed by a vid i watched last year, i think by one of the same PTs that gives otherwise good advice.

As of today i will try using a narrow grip on the bar.

Loohan

Administrator

Registered: 2014-10-31

Posts: 32,834

Re: joint problems from working out wrong

https://www.yogajournal.com/teach/what- … ur-it-band

What Is the IT Band?

Also known as the iliotibial tract, the IT band is a multipurpose tendon that runs down the length of the outer thigh, from the top of the pelvis (ilium) to the shin bone (tibia). It connects the tensor fasciae latae muscle (a hip flexor) and gluteus maximus (the largest butt muscle, a hip extensor, and external rotator) to the outside of the tibia. The IT band is responsible for keeping your hips and knees stable, particularly during rapid, explosive moves like running and jumping. Think of the thick fascia of the IT band like a well-tensioned bridge that links the pelvis and knee. That fascia also envelops your quadriceps muscles and tapers into the knee joint capsule. When the two muscles that attach at the top section of the IT band—the tensor fasciae latae and gluteus maximus—contract, it adds tension to the IT band, which helps to stabilize your knee-to-hip relationship. But too much use (or underuse) from one of these muscles can overstress your IT band and tug on your outer knee, leading to pain.

I forgot to mention this in the knee section, but this is another thing that can mess with your knees:

The Gold's gym i went to the last several years (i had to quit because the obnoxious CIA contemporary pop "music" got just too damn loud) has a swell machine like this that i liked. This is for leg adduction (bringing feet together under resistance) and abduction (spreading the legs under resistance). Opinions differ on the value of using it for adduction, but the abduction function seems to be a scam because you don't need to be exercising your IT band extra! It is not a muscle but a freaking tendon structure that various muscles tie into. It gets tight enough by itself without extra help.

Loohan

Administrator

Registered: 2014-10-31

Posts: 32,834

Re: joint problems from working out wrong

Amazing. Even when i tried my first few pull-ups like that yesterday, i had the impression it was correcting my shoulders already! I experienced very little pain last night and my shoulders keep feeling better. I do a few reps every few hours.

It is also MUCH easier to do them this way, of course. I could only do 1-2 slow reps at a time with the wide grips, usually 1. And i hadn't done a single one since i wrenched my shoulder. It would really have hurt. But my shoulders don't hurt at all if i put my hands together on the bar.

Loohan

Administrator

Registered: 2014-10-31

Posts: 32,834

Re: joint problems from working out wrong

Now my shoulder pains are almost gone. Right shoulder seems pretty normal, and just a bit of tightness in the left. It was very warm yesterday and i went swimming. My overhand stroke is a bit impeded on the left still.

After the last post, i realized that space AI was very covertly attacking the left shoulder, had been for some time! It actually got a lot worse as i fought them off repeatedly. But now that seems to have stopped.

I was just looking at this article
How to Do a Proper Pullup
https://fitness.mercola.com/exercise/pull-ups.aspx
and he mentions NOTHING about the danger to shoulders! Twice he says to make sure that your hands are "shoulder-width apart", and on one exercise, more than shoulder-width apart. So this is not widely known. There are many YT fitness gurus using a wide grip, and they seem to have no problem yet.

If you're wondering how many pullups you should be able to do during these routines, you should consider your age, weight, height and fitness level. For reference, a male recruit in the Marines should be able to do at least three pullups, whereas a 14-year-old boy in school may be able to do up to 10.

In my last post i said

Amazing. Even when i tried my first few pull-ups like that yesterday, i had the impression it was correcting my shoulders already! I experienced very little pain last night and my shoulders keep feeling better. I do a few reps every few hours.

It is also MUCH easier to do them this way, of course. I could only do 1-2 slow reps at a time with the wide grips, usually 1. And i hadn't done a single one since i wrenched my shoulder. It would really have hurt. But my shoulders don't hurt at all if i put my hands together on the bar.

How could i "do a few reps every few hours" if i had not been doing any such exercise in months due to shoulder issues? It actually is not all that MUCH easier to do them narrowly; somewhat, yes, but even now i can only do one or 2 decent narrow pull-ups a day, and even then i have trouble coming down slowly. I will try the "negative" or "eccentric" versions Mercola mentions...

My last post was on the 6th day of an 8-day fast! in which fast i consumed no calories except a few droppers full of CBD oil. And this was preceded by 8 days of severely restricted eating in which i consumed maybe 1/3 as much as usual (in nutrient-dense foods like kale cooked in bone broth, eggs, no fruit).
I must have been a bit lighter, and my already-skinny gut was pretty empty. Still, odd that i could easily do multiple reps. By the 5th or 6th day i was sometimes having to sit down to keep from passing out! And throughout the fast i spent a lot of time napping, which is unusual for me. I was feeble.
On the day after that post i was slightly sore and could "only" do a few reps.

I seem to vaguely recall reading many decades ago about the phenomenon of people experiencing superhuman strength while fasting, and being able to do remarkable amounts of pushups or whatever, but that was so long ago i am not sure i recall correctly.
I did not notice any unusual strength otherwise.

Loohan

Administrator

Registered: 2014-10-31

Posts: 32,834

Re: joint problems from working out wrong

3) Squats with feet parallel: I don't do squats as much as Chinese-style horse stance. I stopped doing the narrower tai chi version years ago, as i feel i really need a wider and deeper stance as in Shaolin or Wushu.
And for many people this is fine! It depends on your individual bone structure. The hip joint consists of a ball on the end of a rod, and a socket. Image:
https://teachmeanatomy.info/lower-limb/ … hip-joint/
But in some people, the rod is short. Plus the socket may be more forward or backward in different people. Different anatomy can cause stress which transfers to you knees somehow. So some people can't do a "proper" deep horse stance without harming their knees. I am not sure what my skeletal structure is, but i suspect this was the major factor messing up my knee in the last couple years.
Now i splay my feet out when i squat or do horse stance. In fact in karate, chang chuan, etc the horse stances are even more splayed out than what i usually do.

Excellent vid explaining this hip joint stuff, and how to determine what you have:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubdIGnX2Hfs
Repticlones, 2 of which were in U bases when i watched, but the info is well-presented.
I am like the guy he uses in the demo, and should be doing squats with my toes outward quite a bit. So every time i tried to do a Shaolin or Wushu type horse stance, i was contributing to my knee problems (along with using a leg extension machine, which also can cause knee problems).
Knee is fine now.

But some people have the opposite condition.